Thank you for the giggle points. As to the topic, I was reading these posts because to see if there was anything about changing the online request system. I saw a little bit but I don’t really think that it was fully answered. My question is; Are you guys going to change the system so that books that are requested aren’t automatically mailed? The way its set up now, you have to type in a specific request to be called when your book is ready for pick up. I wouldn’t even have known that if a helpful librarian hadn’t told me about it. It doesn’t give any options other than mailing. I think that it would be a lot easier to avoid mailing fees if you had to specifically request mailing.

Sara E. – We recognize that our online request system will need some modification when we move to a fee based mailing service.  We’re working on providing a better way to choose whether you’d prefer we mail an item or call you to pick it up instead.  When we begin to charge a fee for mailing we’ll of course be providing you a clear choice between mailing and notification via phone or email.  We’re still working out the details.  In the meantime continue to note that you’d prefer a call, if that’s what you want.
Paul Brennan, Circulation Manager

Though I’ve lived in Topeka for many years, I have just recently started using the library with my young daughter.  I was incredibly impressed by our experiences there.  When we checked out, we were informed that beginning in October, fines would be assessed for late items.  I was shocked that fines were not already in place.  I also felt bad that the employee felt the need to “apologize” for instituting this policy.  I have worked in both public and university libraries, all of which assessed late fees.  While I understand loyal patrons of TSCPL may be upset by these proposals, I support the library’s concept.  It’s clear much discussion needs to take place regarding how much the fees will actually be.  But in general, while it is about revenue, it is also about enforcing civic responsibility.  If we don’t pay a bill on time, we expect to pay a fine.  If we speed and get caught, we expect to pay a fine.  There are consequences for our behavior and as adults, we should be modeling responsibility when those consequences happen to be negative (i.e. paying a fine).  That said, in fining children, if the child is old enough to check out books with their own library card, then they are also old enough to learn the above mentioned responsibilty in meeting deadlines.  While students aren’t “fined” for not turning in homework, they do pay a price in a lower or zero grade.  Children who are too young to have their own card are really not the ones responsible for the items being late.  The parent would be and the parent would also be the one to pay the fines.  In fact, in all likelihood, the parent will probably pay the fine for older elementary children, too.  I found it almost insulting to suggest that the library was planning to aggressively take money from children.  Indeed, I felt it to be quite an inflamatory comment, meant to incite negative feelings by “stretching the truth.”  Yes, parents probably won’t be happy to pay a child’s fine, but that is an excellent opportunity for a teachable moment.  For a child who loves the library, I dare say he or she will learn quickly that in order to keep the privilege they must abide by the rules—either the parent’s or the library’s.

Regarding the mail service, I did not know one existed.  I believe those who live further out in the county and use it regularly have a very valid point—per item fees could get very costly.  Perhaps regular users of this service could pay a resonable flat yearly fee as a sort of compromise.  I’m not sure what reasonable would be, but perhaps more discussion between users and staff would help determine that.  Those who use it less frequently could opt to pay the yearly fee or choose to pay per item/request.  I think it would also be fair for mail users to to have 3-week check out periods to accomodate the time in transit.   

Thank you for the opportunity to have an honest conversation about these policies.  In this day, it’s refreshing.

David - I would like to know your research methodology for determining the demographics of library users.  These do not appear to be the majority of the people I see at the library when I am there.  I also homeschool and know that many homeschool families depend on the library to supplement their studies.  Last eve when I was at a meeting at the library, I got the last handicapped space available.  When I came out after my meeting, someone with a handicapped tag had parked in the cross-hatched area next to my space.  I assume this was because the driver could not find a handicapped space.  I think there are many more library users that fall OUTSIDE the “adults ages 20-64, are not impoverished, and are not disabled” than your research showed.

Rebecca - the library contracted with CIVICTechnologies, a GIS Data and Mapping company.

CIVICTechnologies takes our library patron database and overlays that data with block-level Census data. This combination gives us a very accurate snapshot of our patrons.

- David King, Digital Branch & Services Manager

Ms. Millsap,

My comments and opinions are based on my observations of the library over the years and talking to the wonderful staff that insures that most patrons never see just how poorly things are managed.  My comments and opinions come from seeing how the library has transformed from a place that was about the people of Topeka into just another mindless, self-absorbed government drone (and before I get a lecture, I know the library is not technically part of the city government, etc.)  My comments and opinions are based on seeing a stable, well funded, dynamic library transformed into a greedy, uncaring, corporate-like entity after you were hired.  As director you are responsible for all the library does and over the past couple of years that has been a pattern of bad decision making, poor money management, and the other things mentioned in other comments.  You are correct that we have never met, but I have never met former President Bush and yet I have very strong opinions on his poor decisions.  I want to have a discussion with everyone who is for or against this new policy, that is why I chose the website instead of a heart-to-heart chat.

I would like to know what was tried before charging fees.  Also how much money is being spent to change to a fee system?  I understand special software is needed and a collection agency will be hired.  It seems over the past few years there is little the library can do without spending extra money.  Even when you are trying to save money you spend more!

My last question is this:  Johnson County, one of the state’s premier library systems according to what I have read and been told, has a roughly $17 million budget (this is from their proposed 2009 budget.)  Johnson County has a population of roughly 500,000.  Your budget is $13 million and Shawnee County has a population of roughly 170,000.  With a budget almost as large as Johnson County (a much larger, affluent area) how can you justify needing MORE MONEY!  That is why you are charging fines.  Some of these comments suggest it is about “civic responsibility” but this is about get more than the $13 million you are already spending.  I say $13 million is plenty.  Live within your means.  Stop spend our money hand over fist, $45,000 for a machine that wasn’t even needed, employees that are not needed 31 or 16, that is way too many conferences, multiple flat screen tvs, etc, etc, etc.  If you can’t run a library half the size of Johnson County with as much money as they get, then you need to find a new career.

Forty years. Forty years. Forty years.  You are destroying forty years of tradition.  You are making something special into the ordinary.  Yes, everyone else may charge fines, but do you really want to be everyone else?  No fees and mail are the two unique things about my library and you are getting rid of both.  (Thank you to the library staff who helped me find the information on Johnson and Shawnee county.)

As a former employee of the libary, I find it laughable that Sarah continues to use “library staff” as a source. The library employs over 200 people and not all of those people are at the public service desks. My guess is that Ms. Conner is getting her info from perhaps 1 or 2 vocal staff members. Their are MANY employees that feel Ms. Millsap has done wonders for the library. Every staff member has their own opinion as does everyone in the community. As for the late fees, its about time. People have no incentive to return items on time as it stands now. Yes, there are some people who are courteous and return items when due, but in my experience it is not many. There are some libraries that charge $1 a day for late movie returns. It is quite simple, don’t want to pay late fees? Then return your items on time. I appreciate the mailing service very much. It saves me time, so I will pay to have things mailed. If it is not something you want to pay for then pick up your items at the library or have them sent out on the bookmobile to the stop nearest you. Libraries are not what they have been in the past. In order to keep up with their communities needs libraries must continually evolve. Many of the people that come to TSCPL anymore are not there to get books. They are their for the computers, the classes and the movies. You cannot say who the majority of library users are unless you are there from open to close every day of the week. I would also like to point out that we are very fortunate to have a library that that has such user friendly hours. Ms. Conner should reconsider the offer to meet with Ms. Millsap. I don’t understand why are one would be so willing to talk about these issues with “staff” outside of a public forum, but unwilling to give the Ms. Millsap the same opportunity.

David - Thanks for the link to the GIS mapping company.  I will look at it more closely when I have more time this weekend.  My college stats prof taught me, “Statistics don’t lie; people do.”  However, I am still having a hard time believing the data they provided.  My experience of the library is certainly not the demographic they provided.  One thought - how many of those 20-to-64-year-olds might be checking out materials for others, such as their children?  I know I often check books out for my daughter and to read to my grandson.  Also, how was the determination made that they were not disabled?  To the best of my knowledge there is not a flag on my account that indicates I am disabled.  Just a couple of questions that floated through my mind.  I did notice something that troubled me about the upcoming board meeting.  At the end of the agenda for the July meeting, it indicates that the next regular meeting is Thursday, August 13, 2009 (second Thursday, starts @ 5:00) with the caveat: SUBJECT TO CHANGE W/O NOTICE (emphasis mine).  Does this mean that if I show up on that date and at that time, the board may not actually be meeting?

Now I don’t want to give credence to some of these knuckleheads, but I would also like the answer to the budget question.  I double checked the numbers, and Ms. Connor seems to have her numbers mostly correct.  Johnson County has a roughly $22 million budget (the $17 million is just the Ad Valorem) and a population around 500,000.  The Topeka library’s budget is roughly $14 million according to the top of this article and Shawnee is about 170,000 people.  It definitely seems that proportionately Topeka has a significant budget in relation to population.  No, leaving aside all that personal stuff, what is preventing the library from surviving as is from the current $13 million.  Yes there would be a cut back in services, but it seems like we have been living high on the hog for some time.  I would be willing to do with much less for a short period of time (economist are saying the economy is showing small signs of recovery—so a year or two) then mess with fines and fees and all that stuff.  I guess my question, sadly, is in line with Ms. Connor’s—why can’t the Library provide services to Shawnee County using its currently high budget? 

This isn’t a personal question, like some here, just seems like there is a lot of money going to the library and it should be able to provide service to Shawnee County with its current $14 million.  If Johnson county can serve a larger population with almost as much money, then the Library should be able to provide reasonable service with its large budget. 

Thanks kindly.

I think the late fee is a good idea and don’t see a problem, perhaps there might be a two or three day grace period?

I didn’t know you could pick up a book that was on hold, I haven’t seen that option when requesting a book.  I would rather pick a book up than pay to have it mailed.  Also, as already mentioned I have had a book being “in process” for over a week, that really cuts down on the time to get it returned.

Wouldn’t it make sense that Johnson county would require a smaller budget since they charge late fees and they do not provide mailing (except in certain cases)?  It seems to me, these “extras” would make the Shawnee budget larger.  Just a thought…

Hi,
I LOVE our library.  We have one of the best that I have been to.  The selection of books and other materials is great.  And I have always found the staff to be helpful and great to work with.  Change is hard.  And a decision like the one that was made to start charging fees is tough.  I would rather pay a small fee than to see the library cut services. 
Do you have any ideas on how the fees for mailing would work?  Do we pay ahead or have a running balance?  Any idea on how much that fee would be?  It is a huge convenience to have the books mailed. Is there going to be any problem with storage of books that are on “hold” while they wait to be picked up? I am sure things are still in the works and you may not have this info.
Thank you!

Rachel,
Thank you for your comments. We are still working out details on the fees and have not finalized answers to your questions yet.  Ideally, a customer could either pay as they go or maintain a balance to draw from, whichever they choose.  Software functionality is the uncertainty at this point.  We are still researching best practices for the amount of the fee.

You ask a very important question regarding storage of items to be picked up.  This is a concern.  We currently process about 5,000 holds per week.  If that number stayed constant, but everyone wanted to pick them up, it would present storage problems.  We are looking at a number of solutions and have not determined which would be best.

Robert Banks
Deputy Director

Sabra,

Not really except for the mailing part.  There is no cost to NOT charging fees. If you don’t return a book, the library is not financially hurt for the most part. The next person in line waits a few more days and life goes on.  If you keep the book, like 2 months, the Topeka library charges you for the replacement cost. It is a revenue source, not an expense. 
The only expense that Topeka has that Johnson County doesn’t is the mailing service, which according to a CJ article runs around $300,000 a year.  However, the Topeka Library’s budget is proportionately higher than the $300,000.  Also the Topeka Library isn’t saying “we need to fines to pay for mailing” they are saying we need more money just to keep the doors open.  My question is why?  Even if you subtract the “extras” you have a huge budget that can be trimmed.

That was my point: even with extras and no fees the Topeka library’s budget is really high.
Hope that made sense to yall.

Wow, a lot of good questions being asked. Keep it up!

I would like to know when the fines and fees will end?  If the library needs to implement fines because of the dire economic times, when those conditions change will the policy be reversed? Eventually property taxes will go back up, increasing the library’s budget.

I imagine the answer is no, the fees will be permanent, because once government gets more money they can’t part with it.  After all the library might need a second $45,000 worthless dvd machine!

“I imagine ...”

Truer words were never written!

Or even more true “PERMANENT.”

I love that we are all asking questions and talking about this online.  My DREAM is that everyone who has posted a comment(s) will also attend the BOARD MEETING with several friends in tow who also have strong opinions.  I think we need to let the “Powers That Be” know that this is OUR library, and we very much want to be part of the decision-making process.  So, please, talk about this with others and encourage them to express their opinions both here AND at the board meeting.  THANKS!

I don’t typically post on public forums. However, I feel compelled to here.

I, and my husband, are solidly in the demographic the GIS survey found. We are 20-somethings, who are not disabled, and use our library frequently. We do not check out materials for our children, we do not have any. That being said, we use our library two or three times a month.

I think something key here, that everyone has said again and again, is “our” library. Why? Because it is ours, as a community. We all pay to help maintain it, and we all have the opportunity to use it. We are spoiled in so many ways it is mind boggling. A good friend of mine from Lawrence came up to visit and I took her on a tour of the library. She was absolutely flabbergasted at the fabulous facilities and resources we have. No less than three library staff said hello to us, and two asked if they could help with anything. Why didn’t the third? She was upstairs in one of the specialty rooms, and I told her from the moment we walked in that I was just showing off our library.

I’m disappointed that the library will be charging fines, because now I will have to own up to my own laziness. Yes, I have late materials, namely because I read them, or watch them, or listen to them, and then simply forget to return them on time. Now I’ll have incentive to do that, which is more than fine with me.

I disagree with the comments about the director. I believe the facility, resources and staff that she manages are testaments in and of themselves to her leadership ability. If staff was disgruntled with her for some reason or another, I have a hard time believing they would be as helpful and friendly as I find them to be, almost universally.

On the other hand, the fact that we, as a community, have such a wonderful forum to even discuss the issues in, is great. And what forum is that? The library’s website, which is modern, up to date, user-friendly, and full of information. All thanks to the work of the library staff and leadership.

Me, personally, I thank all our library staff, from the volunteer re-shelving books all the way to the director and even the Board of Trustees. They manage a fantastic resource, and I could not be more satisfied with the results.

I have lived here in Topeka for 5 years.  When I first moved here I was in shock that there were no late fees and that you could get items mailed to you for free!!  I love our library.  I brag to everyone back home how great it is.  I really think it is a shame that late fees will now be imposed.  People who don’t return items, still will not return the items.  It is us loyal customers, who every once in a while forget a due date, that will be paying the price.

Jesica - just FYI - it is not volunteers who shelve the books.  Those are paid positions.  My oldest daughter worked as a shelver when she was in high school.  And she told me plenty of stories about waste and abuse back then to make me worry about where our library dollars were being used.  I guess I wasn’t too far off being concerned.

I’ve traveled the length and breadth of our nation, and to me the two areas where Topeka SHINED was it’s zoo and it’s library. Today, the zoo…..well, you all know that story, I imagine, and why its in the state its in. I’d really hate to see the library go the same route, but from all indications over the last year, thats where its headed.

Topeka’s library always amazed me: fantastic material, well organized, no late fees and a free mailing service. The library, through careful budgeting and frugal use of resources, was able to weather even the horrid economy we suffered under Carter (which was in many ways worse than the economy today). From every indication I’ve seen, and from what I’ve heard speaking to over a dozen people directly associated with the library, the budget woes today are more a result of poor management than anything else…and they can be fixed, if the library tightens it’s belt and gets smart about how it spends.

The library’s budget is more than ample to continue to service the people of the county in the manner it has for decades. The only thing that I can see thats changed is spending…and most of the increase, contrary to what some may want you to believe, is NOT due to increases in general costs. It honestly seems to me as if the library issues are the result of the same type people that cause us to have dozens of useless “parks” (some of which are little larger than a postage stamp) at huge taxpayer expense and huge profit to someone’s cousin or nephew or golf buddy.

Oh, and as to the “temporary” nature of these fines and fees….in 1962 Chicago was told they’d have to pay tolls on interstates around the city, to pay for the costs of the highway, and that after 25 years the roads would be free. Almost 50 years later Chicago residents are still paying huge tolls just to travel 15 miles to work. When ANY government agency or government affiliated agency begins to collect revenue they become permanent. They always find reasons to keep charging.

We have our own little taste of that here. I-70 between Topeka and KC was only supposed to be a toll road for, I believe, 30 years. We are 10 to 15 years over schedule on that one. I fully agree with the scepticism that these fees and fines will be temporary. I would like to see a more detailed time line of exactly how long this should be in effect.

I think that mailing fees have been part of the library budget for a long time. This has been one of the wonderful things about TSCPL and that has made it possible for my(some would say ridiculous)huge reading habit to be fed. I know that we are kind of spoiled, but this is one of the reasons we pay some pretty high taxes. I also have friends and family members who just can’t get to the library because of disability, location, and finances. This will really suck for them. I’m more than happy to help them by picking up books, but now they’ll have to feel less independent.

BTW we’ll probably get in trouble for swaying from the subject for bringing up the toll roads. :(

Honestly, I don’t understand the uproar. The library is not charging to check out materials.  If you return them on time, there is no cost to you. It really isn’t rocket science.

I live 12 miles away from the library in a rural area right outside of Topeka, and I am disabled. Unless I can get someone to take me there, (there is no bus service or Lift service here at all), I have NO WAY to get to the library to get books. Often, I can get people to return books there for me at the outside drop-off (people don’t mind that so much, since they’re going to Topeka for work), but it is next to impossible to find someone to pick me up at home, take me to the library, wait for me to browse and check out books, and then take me back home.

So I check out all of my books from the library through the internet, and they are mailed to me. When it is time to return them, I have several people who work in Topeka who don’t mind dropping them off for me.

I can’t tell you how much it means to me, to get these books through the mail. I read a lot and this really helps me. If I don’t have books to read, I tend to get depressed, as I am alone a lot.

My disability income is less than $700 a month. After I pay rent and utilities, all I have left is $40 a month for clothing, essentials, etc. If fees are going to be charged to have books mailed to people like me, then I won’t be able to get anymore books - at all. A few dollars to mail a book is not a lot of money for most people, but I don’t have those few dollars to spend.

How about assessing a fee dependent on a person’s income? I, for one, would be glad to provide proof of my income. I just can’t afford to read books from the library, otherwise.

I really hope this doesn’t happen.

No, Terry, they’re not charging to check books out. But as the comments before and after yours show, they are going to start charging for mailing books.

I think that most people wouldn’t have an issue with reasonable late fees. It will make us do the right thing and get our books back on time. We have been pretty spoiled to that. Its the mailing fees that have many people rightfully upset.

The two main reasons seem to be 1)people with disabilities or financial hardship will have a hard time obtaining books 2)the library’s online request system automatically mails books unless you specifically type in the comments section for them to call you to pick it up.(there is no prompt on the system that tells you to do this, I had to ask an employee how to request pick up and that is how she told me to do it)

I think that many of the arguments against this are pretty sound. Our library has a very large budget and should be able to continue to provide free services for those who need them.

Hi Lucy,
  Contact our Red Carpet services, because your needs are exactly what they accommodate. The phone number is 785-580-4545 or you can use the web contact form.

Diana Friend,Communications & Marketing manager

FYI - those with budget-specific questions: Gina (our director) has started answering some of those on her blog.

- David Lee King, Digital Branch & Services Manager

Diana - I think that what Lucy is saying is what I earlier put forth—WHY go to expense of sending out the Red Carpet truck (which I am sure doesn’t get the best gas mileage) and an employee to bring our books when it would be just as easy to flag accounts of the disabled and elderly to have the books mailed at no charge.  If the problem is money, it is RIDICULOUS to spend more money sending the Red Carpet truck when you are going to have to do major changes to the system for fee determination and collection anyway.  Just create the flag, determine what “proof” you need, and mark accounts accordingly. 

And Terry, NO it is not rocket science to bring your books back on time and not be fined, but it is the disruption of a long-standing history of no fines.  I would not quibble about late fees for adults, if the kids could “read off” their fines.  My biggest problem is the fee for mailing.  I know too many people for whom this service is more than just a convenience.  They don’t deserve to have the library’s budget problems solved on their backs (or books, as the case may be).

Hi, Rebecca,

We’re on the same side here and we share your concerns. We have a long (and nationally recognized) tradition of outreach services to older adults and those folks for whom it is difficult to get to the library.  That tradition and commitment won’t change. 

There will be an application process that will allow people with special needs to get those needs met at no charge.

Thanks, Gina Millsap, Executive Director

After not receiving a response to my question from the library management, I did what I should have done in the first place, asked staff.  It turns out that yes, theses fines and fees will be permanent.  There is no discussion, and will be no discussion, of going back.  The library might increase fees if they do not get enough revenue, but Ms. Milsap is determined that under her reign, the library will charge fees and fines.  As she told staff, the era of no fines and free mailing are over.  I was also told that a staff member asked Ms. Milsap what impact the public debate at the board meeting would have, and Ms. Milsap said that it would have no impact. Fines and fees will be charged regardless of public opinion during the meeting.  It is a done deal!  I guess it is not the public library but the Milsap library! 

Also, Jesica, from what I have heard you are getting quality and excellent service DESPITE all that the management does to put barriers in the staff’s way.  In my service unit, I routinely make up for poor management decisions with clients, so it makes since that the library staff would encounter this as well.  I was told, again by staff, that Ms. Milsap has made it clear to staff that she is no longer interested in their opinion on this topic.  That means she is not interested in the public or her staff’s opinions on this matter.  She wants fines and she is determined to get them.  I think I will get my husband to rework is “Countdown to ex-President Bush” website to a “Countdown to Milsap’s Retirement!”

I still encourage everyone to write and come to the meeting, but it appears that Ms. Milsap is determined that this will go through despite what we want.

Oh, and to any that are watching…..that 900 pound boat anchor you jokingly refer to as DVD Express is a HUGE waste of space and resource! The thing works for crap, is slow as all hell, and has been down almost half the times I’ve been there to use it.

The library would have done a much greater service to TSCPL patrons by hiring another person or two to handle DVD checkouts, making one lane just for that purpose, giving people GENUINE customer service and taking a couple more people off the unemployment list in the city.

WOW!  I want to be a library director when I grow up!  I had NO IDEA they wielded such power.  NO ONE can change the decision of the library director?  Not the board?  Not the taxpayers who support the library?  Amazing. 
Who knows, this could be true.  But I, for one, do not want to take it at face value.  If NO ONE shows up at that board meeting, then yes, I am certain it is a “done deal.”  However, if enough of us show up with valid concerns and ideas, I am gullible enough to believe that we may have a chance at making at least some compromises to the proposed changes. So let’s not give up the rallying cry quite yet - let’s plan on being there next week to make sure our voices are heard.

I loved going to the library when I lived in Topeka. I loved it so much that I now pay the $84 dollars to continue using the library.
I have never requested a book from the library that was physically at the library, available for checkout. I have several times placed a hold on a book that was checked out and had it sent to me. I am very selective when doing this due to the cost of postage. Since I live a little ways away, I make it to the library every three weeks. What will happen if I put a book on hold (checked out) and discover that it was returned not too long after I visited the library? I will have already made my trip. Will the library be willing to keep it on hold for me or will I lose the hold on it and have to wait even longer? My concern is that I will have paid for my library card but will not be able to checkout any of the books I wish to read because the library will not hold them for several weeks. I pay for the card for a reason.

Rebecca,
  Thank you for your observation about the Red Carpet truck, but I would like to correct your perception. We have many volunteers who regularly deliver materials to customers who are part of the home delivery program. The truck you refer to is used to deliver to nursing homes, assisted living and other congregate living facilities and isn’t used for home deliveries. If you would like to know more about Red Carpet deliveries, please visit
the basics of Red Carpet deliveries.

Diana Friend
Communications & Marketing manager

Hi all - just emailed Sarah.

I need to remind everyone again to stick to the topic at hand, and to please steer clear of personal attacks on library employees and on other commenters.

A good rule of thumb is this – if you can’t be polite, don’t say it.

When there ARE personal attacks, first I email the commenter individually (and post here). If the commenter continues “misbehaving,” their comments will be deleted until they calm back down.

Again, thanks for your comments, and please feel free to continue sharing on our digital branch.

- David King, Digital Branch & Services Manager

For those against late fees, because you think the library is greedy and wants to nickle and dime you, then I propose a protest.  Do so by being an example for our children and return borrowed material on time.  Speaking from common sense, if you don’t return items late then you will not acquire late fees.  This teaches our children and adults responsibility which I consider a fair trade for a quarter or even a buck. I for one learned that value from the small town library where I grew up.  I lost my library card when I was little and had to pay a dollar to get it replace, I still have that card what a surprise. 

I applaud the extraordinary leadership of the library administration and the board for recognizing that changes need to be made in order to provide the same level of service to our community during a time of hardship.

As I reread these comments, I see a theme in many posts opposed to these proposals.  The theme is that the Library has been spending irresponsibly and is thus instituting fees and fines to bring them out of the red.  If we go back to post #30, we are informed that according to Kansas Statute, the Library must spend its yearly budget.  It can only carry over a limited percentage.  And, of course, it cannot overspend.  To me, it sounds a lot like grant funding—you have to use it or lose it.  Thus, following this premise and in looking at the posted budget, it doesn’t appear that the library is in the hole.  Even if it were, I doubt money from fines would create enough revenue to fix the problem.  Whether or not the purchases mentioned are valuable to patrons’ experiences is extremely relative.  But clearly these purchases are not the reason for these revenue proposals.  Had the items not been bought, the money would have been spent elsewhere (again, per the statute) or, if not spent, I imagine (if it was over the carryover limit) it would have to be returned to the source of the revenue.  While we probably won’t reach 100% consensus on the way we think the library should spend its budget, I think it’s fair to say that financial mismanagement is not the impetus for the current proposals.  And, Sarah, I still stand by my assertion that fines do enforce civic responsibility and the Library is not gouging children for money.  On that, it appears we will have to agree to disagree.  P.S.  I also believe that a “read off your fine” program for children may have an unintended effect in turning children away from reading as reading then, essentially, becomes a punishment.

The comment #30 I refer to is on page 1, posted by Diane, not page 2.

My apologies, Diana, not Diane.

I have a question. If you ask for a book that you requested to be sent to a book mobile will you be charged for that? I don’t think it would be because there won’t be any postage fee to pay, but I just want to be sure.
I also wanted to know how will people be notified that an item is ready for pickup?
Thank you an advance.

Caraley - No, there will be no fee to have a requested item sent to a Bookmobile stop for pick up.  Notification for requests will take place via a phone call or email.  Paul Brennan, Collections Manager

Kelly,

I understand that the library has to spend all their money each year. My point and several other people who posted have said that if the library has all this extra, left over money, then why do they need more money now. I can see it happening one year, but there comes a point when you are just counting on the extra money each year to buy these non important items. That is why I say that the library and Ms. Milsap are greedy, because they continue to ask for more money when according to them they “had” to spend the money or loose it.

My other question is what exactly will happen if the library does not get this money?  No body has answered that question.  Will the library shut down? From what staff tell me, there will be less copies of books, but a little extra wait time is better then fines and charging for mail.

Also the news is full of articles saying how the economy is rebounding. The library relies on property tax for most of their income.  If the economy is stabilizing then over the next year or so property values will stabilize and tax revenue will increase.  Why not ride out a couple of bad years instead of spending money (yes the library has to spend money for new software and things to start charging fees) instead of making permanent fee and fines.

I hope that was polite enough.  This was a little rushed as I am rushing to church, but I will try to add more, but those are my basic questions and comments.

Perhaps the funds are already encumbered for something else?  If the statute (which I will admit I haven’t read) follows many government and private grant stipulations, money carried over from one fiscal year has to be spent within the next fiscal and cannot be carried over again, essentially making it impossible to have savings to carry them through “bad” times.  I don’t think the library will close if the fees aren’t instituted.  Beyond the transition period, I also don’t think the fines will add up to much significant revenue.  Personally, I am more concerned about the duplication of services between the mailing and Red Carpet service.  Patrons who are disabled could actually receive, in my opinion, better service by using the Red Carpet service.  Personally, I would prefer patrons who do not qualify for Red Carpet to pay for postage and the money previously used for postage be used to expand Red Carpet to more who could really benefit from it.  I, of course, live within city limits so it is easy for me to say that since I don’t utilize the mail service.  Clearly someone who lives further out in the county would, and rightfully, probably disagree with me.  Unless the fines are truly outrageous, I still support them.  I worked in a university library in which the fine for returning a 2-hour reserve item was $1/hour (there was a cap, but I don’t remember what anymore).  My point is fines really aren’t about creating a sustainable revenue source.  Yes, some students did return reserve items late, but for most it was enough of a deterent to return items on time.  The Library may gain some revenue from fines initially, but I still believe in the long term it won’t be much and the fines will become what they are intended to be—a deterent.

Greetings,
I’m a long time library user, and have enjoyed this great public resource.

FEES: this will not all be income to the libe; what will be the # FTE employees needed to supervise/collect/pursue this stream?  Cost of licensing software to collect this info?  Bills mailed to overdue patrons?  Return envelopes to encourage payment?  Cash registers at check-out for those paying in person?  etc

MAILING: I have always been amazed how easy to have items mailed, and how inconvenient to pick up a requested item.  How many FTE employees now select/pack/address/mail items?  When I pick up an item, the counter person goes on a prolonged search - and the line comes to a screeching halt.  Many times, my online account indicated a book was being held for me, but it wasn’t where the counter person could find it.  I hope this entire process will be re-examined for cost and efficiency, regardless of what eventually happens to mailing charges.

DVD DISPENSER:  Wow, I thought this monster was diesel powered!  What a clunker!  Makes Redbox looks absolutely space age!

Why is it buried inconveniently in the library, and not near the entrance, or even ‘outside’ the library and in the lobby?  If cutting expenses, I have never understood why the public library is providing video games.  Is it bait to get kids into the library?

I wrote a few days ago (post # 25), and I’ve read the comments and replies from some folks as to my concerns.

But I still don’t feel like I have a clear, concise answer to what I’m concerned about. Post # 27 from someone at TSCPL referred me to a link to Red Carpet services (which I read), and said that my needs are what they accommodate. Well, I went to the link, I read about Red Carpet services, and I came away from that, believing that Red Carpet provides a truck to nursing homes and as a later post stated, to “congregate” areas of disabled/elderly people. I am not in a nursing home or other group living situation, so I don’t see how that applies to me.

The other response I got, however, which said my needs would be accommodated, led me to think that perhaps Red Carpet actually WOULD make book deliveries to individual homes ... however, post # 35 from someone at TSCPL said the truck is not used for home deliveries.

Post # 30 from TSCPL said there would be an application process to allow people with special needs to get those needs met free of charge.

So I am more than a bit confounded and I need some clarity ...if the truck is not used for home deliveries (which is my situation), how am I going to be accommodated/able to get my book needs met free of charge? Should I take this to mean that for people in my situation, books will be mailed to me at no charge? Or not?

Another thing I wondered about, was what post #29 said, “why go to the expense of sending out a Red Carpet truck?” The reply from TSCPL was that the truck was staffed by volunteers, not employees. So I take this to mean there is no employee cost to this service, however, there would be vehicle cost. I do agree with that poster that the cost (particularly with rising gas prices), to deliver books, would be greater than the cost to mail them. So I want to know if the truck is making deliveries more than a few miles away from the library, how can the expense of gas and vehicle maintenance, be cheaper than mailing books to disabled patrons who are NOT living in congregate areas, such as nursing homes and assisted living facilities?

Then again, maybe I’m confused all the way around; I would like a clear answer as to whether or not I’m going to be able to check out books from the library as I have in the past. And if there is going to be an application process, would you outline it for me?

My last concern is with post #36 from TSCPL, which said “just emailed Sarah” and then he talked about how if someone is “misbehaving”, their comment will be deleted. Unless I missed a post from Sarah which was deleted before I checked back in, I didn’t see anything she wrote which was offensive. I don’t know this Sarah, but even if she is disagreeing, I don’t see that as offensive - my concern is that she may be getting “called down” by TSCPL for speaking her concerns on this board. Or was there a different Sarah he was referring to, and/or a post from her which was deleted, that I missed?

Me again. Please forgive, but I now realize that one of Sarah’s comments was sarcastic in nature. So I can see how that is offensive. (this is in regard to my last paragraph, in post #46).

I didn’t see this when I logged in earlier; I attribute missing it to my mass confusion as to all the different replies I got from TSCPL staff re: my earlier post, #25.

So I can see how sarcasm re: TSCPL employees in one of Sarah’s posts, could be viewed as offensive. However, I do think addressing this by calling it “misbehaving” is more than a tad condescending,  and implies TSCPL is in an authoritarian position over library patrons - as misbehaving is a word most often used to address a child - not another adult of equal status.

If you read through all the messages on this board, many patrons are already feeling like this is an inequitable situation and there is a fear they may be powerless and their voices not heard; using a term such as “misbehaving” to address a patron’s sarcasm, only solidifies that fear that this indeed, an inequitable situation where TSCPL has all the power. So I think watching language in our posts, needs to be heeded to by not only patrons, but by TSCPL employees as well.

I think many of us are more than a little frustrated with all this; I for one, would like some straight answers as to my concerns, and I think others want clear answers, as well.

I will be interested in replies to my concerns, as well as replies to other questions/concerns, particularly posts #38 and #45.

Lucy,

I’m sorry this has gotten confusing.  I’ll try to explain. 

Red Carpet delivers in two different ways to two different groups.  The Red Carpet truck is a large vehicle, staffed by paid staff.  This vehicle visits nursing homes, congregate living sites, etc.  As you mentioned, this would not meet your needs, nor does it make fiscal sense to send a large vehicle to your home. 

Red Carpet also delivers to individual’s homes.  This is typically done by volunteers and is usually done from a car or van.  This is more of a one-on-one service to those who cannot get out of their homes to come to the library, visit bookmobiles, etc.

We are still in the process of determining how we will identify the individuals for this process, so we are unable to give you specifics at this time.  We will not begin charging for mailing items until January 2010, so there is still time to work with you.  We are in the process of working on this and will let you know as soon as we possibly can.  If you have questions about this, please call our Red Carpet Services at 580-4545 and they will help you.

Regarding the posting about “misbehaving”; everyone is entitled to their opinion and that is not a problem.  Where we occasionally need to step in is when a person begins to make personal comments about someone else.  We always notify the person that they are welcome to continue posting but to not take the conversation in a personal direction.  So far, everyone has done that and they are continuing to post.

I hope that I have helped clarify the Red Carpet situation for you.  If not, please call them at 580-4545 and they can make sure all of your questions are answered.  Thank you for asking. 

Rob Banks, Deputy Director

Henry (page 2/post 45), here are some interesting arguments about the connection between gaming and literacy, something I hadn’t considered until several years ago. Thought you might find them cool, too.

From the New York Times: Using Video Games As bait to Hook Readers

From Stephen Abram’s blog, “Stephen’s Lighthouse” (he was our keynote speaker on staff developement day 2006 at TSCPL): New MacArthur Foundation Study on Youth and New Media

Heather Kearns
Associate Curator/Sabatini Gallery
TSCPL

*development ... the preview isn’t working and I’ve lost two prior posts and missed this typo ... grrr.